I am still attending. I speak with many about this in general. It seems that they are resentful since the end never came and they feel lied to. There are at least four people in the Congo who will tell almost anyone that. We have 45-50 people for the mid-week meeting 70-75 on Sunday. This has slipped quite a bit over the past ten years or so. At the circuit assembly and special assembly day there are between one and four people baptized regularly. Most seem to be believing children. There are little or no converts in the English congregations anymore. Hours and hours of field service, little in the way of results. Mostly "not at homes". The Elders do not have the competency of prior generations. The meetings bore almost everyone to tears. Only the older Sisters say something pleasant to the Elders after the meetings. It is conspicuous that many of the members avoid them and just smile and speak nicely to them when they have to. The changing doctrines are getting people now, more so than before. I don't think fifteen percent of the Publishers can recite what the Generation now means. All the kids have left. Only some small minor children attend. Teenage and above are gone. It is almost amazing. Most of the people have no children in the religion anymore. There is a definite and palpable decline not only the number of members, but in attitude and energy. It's sad really. People can only take so much. They feel taken advantage of, as they tell me.
Simon Templar
JoinedPosts by Simon Templar
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Question for those still attending the Kingdom Hall
by ToesUp inthis a question more out of curiosity, because we have not stepped foot in a kh in 3 years.. how is the attendance at the meetings/assemblies?
i know the answer will vary due to location.. are you (especially elders) receiving any notification or communication from bethel or co's that there is an upsurge of people that are simply disappearing or out right dis associating?.
thanks, in advance, for your feedback!
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Best pills meds or other to take before meeting?
by Crazyguy inthought it would be good to share what ones take to deal with the meetings.
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Simon Templar
For about the past year, my wife has been taking a small-dose Xanax about 1/2 hour before the meeting. -
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Talk on "Reaching Out"-Only What BOE Thinks Matters
by Simon Templar infor the “living as christians” section of the workbook, “are you reaching out?” talk (15 min), the bethelite gave this talk at the meeting.
he totally departed from the subject matter which is the watchtower of september 15, 2014, pages 3-6. he was so far off the reservation, it wasn't funny.
here are a few highlights of what was said: 1) if any brother asked why they haven’t been appointed, and wants to know if there is a problem or condition that exists, that brother is too “presumptuous” and therefore, can’t be used.
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Simon Templar
For the “Living as Christians” section of the workbook, “Are you Reaching Out?” talk (15 min), the Bethelite gave this talk at the meeting. He totally departed from the subject matter which is the Watchtower of September 15, 2014, Pages 3-6. He was so far off the reservation, it wasn't funny. Here are a few highlights of what was said: 1) If any Brother asked why they haven’t been appointed, and wants to know if there is a problem or condition that exists, that Brother is too “presumptuous” and therefore, can’t be used. 2) No Brother should ask about this, but just wait on the body to act. If he isn't appointed, that means that the BOE feels that he isn't qualified. That's it. 3) Talent or skill doesn't matter for those appointed. It's what the BOE thinks and feels that matter. Nothing else.
The implied thought was that the “Sheep” need to accept this and get used to it. They (the publishers) can't expect any of the appointed men to perform up to what they think is appropriate. If they don't like it, too bad. Correct yourself.
My Wife has been active in the religion for 50 years. She is well studied and takes this religion seriously. After the meeting, she was furious. She said “Who does this man think he is to say these things to us, when they are not correct or in the Watchtower that is the subject of that part!” She ranted about him for a while. I was surprised. She spoke about the poor quality in recent years with almost any of the Elders and Servants and how this is harming the Congregation. Then she told me what the other Sisters thought of these people. I had no idea, not that I really care.
This morning my wife was still upset. She mentioned that “They lied to us. The end never came as promised. When I was a kid, my Mother told me I would die if the end came and I wasn't baptized”. She mentioned that “When I agreed to be a member of this religion, everything was different. The end of the world, the Brothers, the congregations, the doctrines. There isn't any love in the congregation anymore. Things have changed. No apologies about the changes or doctrinal reversals , but I am supposed to do what I am told and shut-up.”
She is hurt and P.O’d beyond belief. That one little 15 minute talk set her off big time. I had no idea she felt this way.
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Honestly, Did Jehovah's Witnesses Do Anything POSITIVE For You?
by minimus ini was raised as a witness and am very thankful that i am out.
having said that, i think my upbringing produced positive qualities in me.
do you believe that anything positive came from your being a witness?
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Simon Templar
I was raised in the religion. Its all I have known really. I realize that there are many negatives to being a member of the religion. There are also many positives in mu opinion. I don't know which is greater. I would have to think about that.
I learned many things and gained some positive qualities being brought up in the religion and living most of my adult life in it. I would say that the biggest positives (to me) is the ability to present myself very well. I learned to study and organize my thoughts so I can present ideas and opinion to strangers, and do so with authority and conviction. This has helped me greatly in my secular life and I am grateful. That's about it. The people in the religion (particularly today) is the biggest problem and also the appointment and use of conspicuously unqualified men in positions of oversight.
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Brooklyn Brownstoner article: Reader Unearths Fascinating 1969 Letter About Then-New Jehovah’s Witnesses HQ
by AndersonsInfo inhttp://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2016/01/jehovah-witness-history-brooklyn-squibb-1969-donations/.
reader unearths fascinating 1969 letter about then-new jehovah’s witnesses hq.
by barbara eldredge 1/25/16.
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Simon Templar
The story that I recall was floating around the organization by people in the "know" about this subject is that Nathan Knorr was on an airplane flying from somewhere back to NYC. On that flight was a corporate officer of Squibb. This man was speaking with Knorr and told him that he should buy the building from Squibb. The conversation between the two men started the ball rolling on the WTB&TS buying the building. This was mid to late 1960s as I recall. -
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What's next?
by Grey Goose inhi everyone.. thanks for the welcome a few days ago, it was nice to hear your support.. this is a pure speculation thread, but what do you think the next changes are going to be?.
will we see tything come into play?.
more evangelical style meetings?.
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Simon Templar
Here is what I can speculate on happening in the next five years. This is only for the developed world. I cant comment on the third world (where all the growth is). The developing world will get most of the attention.
1. Because of the apparent lack of qualified men, and that condition not improving, merge several congregations together. Sell any extra KHs and send the money to the Organisation.
2. Revamp the weekly meetings so that there is only a bible study meeting. It is for one hour and there is alternating Brothers doing it. The reader doesn't matter. This meeting is held on the first, third and fifth week. A canned video of one hour is presented on the second and fourth week. For areas where there is limited internet availability, they will be sent a DVD. The Congregation would have to pay for the DVD the same as they would pay for and ISP.
3. Revamp the Sunday meeting to a one hour public talk given by any Brother in good standing that can follow and outline and talk for an hour. This is given on the first, third and fifth week. A canned video talk is presented on weeks two and four. There will be no regular Watchtower study. If there is a special doctrinal matter that needs to be introduced or revised and the congregation needs to hear and understand it through the study method, a special publication will be on the website for downloading and a special meeting will be held. If the matter doesn't need to be studied, then a special video talk will be presented with a brief explanation/commentary provided by a local Brother.
3. There will be a special series of articles in the Watchtower which illustrates that Jesus spoke to people he met in the normal course of his life, not just formal door to door. This will usher in a new method of field service for the rank and file of just speaking to people that they meet using a tablet or smart phone. This will dispose of the door to door work as being a staple. You can go door to door if you want, but you only have to talk to people that you meet in your daily life. That's it. This will be done to make it easier for people to stay in the religion and do something in Field Service with all the not at homes that are experienced. No minimum hours or placements will be required. Just do it as you can.
4. The requirements for receiving an appointment will be greatly relaxed. No more minimum Field Service requirements, unbelieving children living at home are now okay, brownnosing not required, etc. The BOE will ask you if you want to serve, and if you do, they will appoint you at the next meeting. Minimum time and procedure involved.
That's about the end of my five year speculation for the moment.
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Elder Mentioning an "Apostate Problem"
by Simon Templar ini bumped into a sister that i have known for at least 40 years or so.
we were catching up.
she and her husband have been in the truth for decades.
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Simon Templar
Hello Closed. I am sorry to hear what happened to you. Several years ago the CO singled out our Son and wanted to "get him" as I was told. I still don't know why. The CO came after me too and we had our discussion. The CO did not prevail. The CO traveled to other Congos and told various ones there that our Son was a bad associate and to avoid him. Everyone did. Our Son was not charged with anything, no committee formed, etc. Just the CO working covertly. Our Son was effected greatly by the actions of the CO. He left the religion on his own shortly thereafter. He has been out for years. -
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Elder Mentioning an "Apostate Problem"
by Simon Templar ini bumped into a sister that i have known for at least 40 years or so.
we were catching up.
she and her husband have been in the truth for decades.
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Simon Templar
I bumped into a Sister that I have known for at least 40 years or so. We were catching up. She and her husband have been in the truth for decades. Her husband was an Elder for most of those years. He is a good and reasonable person. Everyone liked him. The couple moved to a new area. She told me that he came with a good letter recommending him. He refused to be reappointed. He said his health wouldn't allow it. The Elders in the new Congo refuse to talk to him. One told her that her husband has no regard for "spiritual things". The couple have been in that new Congo now for 8-10 years, or something like that. He is completely ignored and almost "shunned" unless they want him to do something (less work for them) for them. I believe her, but find the behavior unbelievable, that they would ignore a brother for many years like this.
Anyhow, She told me that an Elder who she knows (I know him too) told her that in his circuit there is a Congregation where seven women partake of the emblems. Somehow the situation is considered either apostasy or borderline apostasy. Needless to say, I don't know the details, just what I was told. Now I understand that the CO is aware of it. I didn't know that partaking could constitute anything wrong. I guess that this is something new because of the growing numbers of partakers.
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A Sister Stops the CO's Bullying
by Simon Templar inwe had the co a few weeks ago.
i waited a few weeks for time to pass to post.
we now have a new co. he started in september and his first visit to our congo was a little while ago.
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Simon Templar
We had the CO a few weeks ago. I waited a few weeks for time to pass to post. We now have a new CO. He started in September and his first visit to our Congo was a little while ago. By the way, he is smaller than average in height and has a Napoleon Complex.
I showed up at the meetings for Field Service on Wednesday. No big deal. I showed up for the meeting for Field Service on Thursday morning. No big deal. On Thursday afternoon, at the meeting for Field Service, the CO was up there doing his thing. He was speaking extemporaneously and picking out people like me and said "this guy has a bad attitude. We will have to change that". He doesn't even know me! Then he picked on someone else and made a remark and then another person. Once he got this out of his system, he started assigning people to work together. An Older Sister in our Congo was there (she is in the religion for 60+ years and speaks to me regularly. She has been worn out and cares very little about most JW things). She had a small back and forth with him on assignments because she didn't hear him too well. I was surprised, but thought it was over. Then the CO said something (I don't remember) and she said to him, "Brother, I'm not afraid of you". I was totally amazed and partially shocked.
After the prayer and dismissal to the field, the CO noticeably changed from a bully to a lamb. He went over to the Sister, spoke nicely to her. It seemed like "old home week" there for a few minutes. He smiled and spoke nicely to me. A complete change. You can't make it up.
Many of the people in my Congo are coming unhinged. Its a sign of the times I guess, and a series of stories for another day.
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Can an inactive family member hold back a MS appointment?
by Simon Templar ina friend asked me if a man can be appointed a ms if he has an inactive (inactive for 15-20 years) baptized adult child living in his home.
the child lives by the rules and doesn't do anything wrong (jw-wise), as i am told.
i know the child (adult) and is a good kid as far as i know.
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Simon Templar
Thanks to everyone for the information and the points. I am particularly grateful to commiteechairman for the ks book references. I will share with the person who asked me. With an adult child, it seems subjective. Well, the whole thing is subjective to start with.